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London bombings - How do we protect ourselves from attack from within? IP: 126.96.36.199 Posted on July 18, 2005 at 11:14:13 AM by Peter Dow
In order to follow this post, it may be worthwhile reading in the window frames to see how I started off the debate on the British Army Rumour Service forum. The moderators deleted my first thread there but you can't keep a good debate down forever - see PS to this post.
bagpuss posting on the British Army Rumour Service, Current Affairs, News and Analysis forum asked And how would you advocate we protect ourselves from attack from within.
How? Offer better political leadership and recruit impressionable people to fight for freedom and justice before they are perverted into being suicide bombers by terrorist leaders.
Real freedom does not include the freedom to recruit terrorists and suicide bombers so that activity needs to be stopped. Brainwashing operations and pro-terrorist organisations need to be closed down and proper political education begun.
It is no good expecting the universities to be doing that now when the UK fascist police state has been extinguishing significant democratic political activity in the universities for years. That is a big part of the problem in Britain.
Responsible dissent in our universities and communities has been outlawed, crushed and managerial rule imposed and regrettably some impressionable people have succumbed to the brainwashing of terrorist recruiters rather than be managed like sheep.
We need to offer real workable political alternatives to the UK royalist, fascist status quo.
Who should facilitate this “offering of better political leadership”?
Well it is not just the job of political leaders like myself to speak up. It is also the job of officials and citizen-complainers to stop getting in the way of political leaders - like those idiot police officers who got in my way by handcuffing and jailing me for flying a union flag without permission in a railway concourse.
bagpuss: By definition a liberal democracy is vulnerable to internal attack.
Wrong! Liberal democracy, if we ever get one here, would be much less vulnerable than the illiberal undemocratic UK regime we have just now. The problem for us in Britain is that the UK fascist police state is instinctively suppressing (particularly non-institutional) political expressions and so is suppressing and destroying liberal democracy.
We don’t presently live in a liberal democracy because of the actions of the fascist police state against liberty and democracy in our society.
You are kidding yourself if you believe this is a liberal democracy. It isn’t. I wish it was. I’d love to have more liberty and democracy, I really would.
The fascist police state officers are never done undermining liberal democracy by threatening, detaining and arresting political demonstrators, speakers, protestors etc. - particularly those volunteer leaders like myself who are not officially “approved” by institutions such as the universities or television - although sometimes even the BBC has its programmes censored by the fascist police state, via a court gagging order.
A fascist police state and a liberal democracy are two quite incompatible and contradictory ways of doing things. A fascist police state destroys society. Whereas a liberal democracy opens the door to, for example, socialists such as myself to enable us to better society with superior leadership.
The powers that be - the royalist fascist establishment for example - are happy to smirk on as the fascist police state smashes down on liberal democracy because that way they get to stay in charge (they hope).
Staying in charge is the only thing that matters for the establishment - they’d rather all of us were killed by terrorists than they lost their positions of authority.
bagpuss: Perhaps we should increase police powers, have a bit of a clampdown on civil liberties, stop people moving freely about the country, put the army on the street.
No - rather mostly we need a clamp down on the oppressive actions of the fascist police state, stop them harassing and arresting peaceful protestors. Only terrorist brainwashing operations need to be clamped down upon and that should be done speedily but accurately, and not by the usual idiots running the police who are bound to get it wrong and arrest the wrong people.
Contrast the treatment by the police of those carrying concealed weapons - they are routinely ignored by the police because, for example, knife-carriers don’t stand out so that you‘d notice - until someone is stabbed.
So people carrying knives, guns or, rarely, bombs pass unnoticed right in front of the noses of the police.
On the other hand, public political activity stands out and gets noticed right away and often attracts immediate harassment from the police. The police have got their priorities wrong.
There are some very stupid and incompetent police officers who just need to be dismissed. Not just some bobbies on the beat but some of those from Chief Constables on down.
Also many judges need to go. Many are useless - a menace and not to be trusted, ever.
The army could be sent in - to arrest bad police officers and bad judges, if necessary to get them sacked.
Instead of intelligently targeting the terrorist recruiters, the fascist police officers typically target people like myself who are daring to take any kind of critical stance or profile on the issues - the stupidity of these police fascists knows no bounds.
But little of what needs to be done is going to be done well so long as the head of state is rubbish - so long as we keep Queen Elizabeth as head of state it is just tinkering trying to make a bad UK royalist, fascist police state system struggle on somehow.
Both Scotland and Britain need to get rid of the handicap of the royals urgently and get good presidents if we want to make speedy progress on all of society’s problems.
Far from rubber-stamping the fascist police state - a good president would be saying clearly that these clowns running things have got to go and the sooner the better.
bagpuss: This is a long term problem and is about a clash of ideologies. Your pathetic whingeing about a 'regime' that allows you the liberty to have free views.
It is not liberty if you are not allowed to EXPRESS your views in public. My complaint is that this regime does NOT allow me the liberty to EXPRESS my views, particularly in public, where they might actually get noticed.
What is more pathetic is that clearly you do not understand the lethal consequences of allowing police fascists to continue to destroy liberal democracy.
If the police were arresting doctors and nurses all the time, you wouldn’t be surprised if a lot of people were dying unnecessarily perhaps?
But when the police are arresting responsible political activists, the ignorant laugh it off, trivialise those political activists as mentally ill and so on and THEN they wonder why there is a rise in terrorism. Political activists need to be allowed to get on with their work without being stopped by the police and the courts all the time.
The police are harassing and arresting innocent people for giving out a leaflet, displaying a poster, flying a flag, peacefully entering a place to take their message to the people - and other quite reasonable actions.
Liberty means not being arrested for trivial harmless actions or for doing good, as I do. If you are arrested for that it isn’t liberty. Got it?
bagpuss: I remember I used to attend Socialist Worker meetings when I was at Uni (forgot to tell the vetting peeps about that one), but only because I was trying to get into the knickers of a pretty young thing
Clearly you didn’t learn much socialism at the meetings. (Although sex is of course a social activity generally speaking. Socialists do have sex, you know.)
What is disgusting though is that the fascist police state is reluctant to recruit into the armed forces decent people who might have enough of a social conscience to attend a socialist meeting.
These political vetting people are a menace. Sure, keep NF or BNP supporters out but real socialists should be sought after. The royalist fascists just want people in the army who will shoot whom they are told, when they are told. They don’t EVER want you to think and to question it seems.
Which is why the internet is a good thing really, as it can help make people question and then the royalist fascists might lose their grip on power one day? We’ll see.