Derek Harrison's Crossword Message Board

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Re(4): Guardian Clue
IP: 82.20.215.131


I can see very little difference between this clue and one containing an indirect anagram, except that the additional remove is within the definition part rather than the wordplay. It seems akin to this clue for SEPTENTRIONAL (Azed 1,975) which was mistakenly accepted by Azed: "This line’s a rotten piece of public transport". As he subsequently observed, "Some of you pointed out that though the cryptic part is fine the definition here indicates NORTHERN, not the clue word but a ‘definition of a definition’, and that the clue is flawed as a result. They are right, and I should have been more on the ball than I clearly was when picking it out for specific mention. I am grateful for having this pointed out." As already noted, in both this clue and the Guardian one (where the 'derived definition' is 'type of fungi') the part of the clue in the spotlight is a second wordplay rather than a definition of the solution - in the clue 'Fun guy gathered truffles?' for FUNGI, the first three words form a cryptic wordplay and the fourth is the definition. If 'definition by wordplay' is allowed, then 'draw back' for CARE (via WARD), 'endless party' for ROLE (via PART) and 'stand' for PADDINGTON (via BEAR) would all potentially be legitimate...as they would have been in some 1960s puzzles.

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